Pierre Asselin is Assistant Deputy Minister, PaciRc and Freshwater Fisheries, with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans in Ottawa. In the following interview, conducted in October, he comments on some of the factors shaping DFO's management strategy for the arctic region.

CARC: Is there a northern fishery? Does your department's view of the northern fishery jibe with that of government, or is there a need for greater awareness on the part of legislators?

 Asselin: Yes-there are, in fact, many fisheries: sport, commercial, and domestic, and they include marine mammals. Most are characterized by their small scale, sporadic operation, short season, and weather and transportation constraints. Even the Great Slave Lake fishery, the largest in the Northwest Territories, is small by other Canadian commercial fresh-water standards.

 The department is aware of the views of the Government of the Northwest Territories and the recent thrust by that government and the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development to emphasize renewable resource use as an alternative to the unpredictable and more short-term characteristics of non-renewable industries such æ oil and gas, and mining. Renewable resource use better suits the lifestyles of most northerners, particularly native northerners. Although the GNWT may prefer emphasis on private entrepreneurs and the development of fisheries at a relatively fast pace, DFO would rather see local community groups and associations involved, and the pace of development tailored to their social and economic needs and the sustainability of the fishery.

 CARC: Does the northern fishery constitute a viable economic development opportunity for northerners, particularly native peoples? Are there identifiable limits on the extent to which the fishery could-or should-serve æ a vehicle for economic development?

 Asselin: At best, economic development opportunities for northern fisheries are limited. There are many reasons for this: short seasons, weather, low volume of production, transportation costs, the static nature of the fishing technology, high production costs, and logistics. The commercial fishery currently requires assistance in the form of price and freight subsidies-that's about $500 000 a year-vessel assistance loans, and the like. Higher and additional subsidies would likely be required for more remote fisheries.

For example, in 1985-86, there were 82 self-employed fishermen in the Northwest Territories. Of these, less than 24 per cent grossed more than $30 000; 55 per cent grossed less than $4100; and 43 per cent grossed less than $2000.

 On the question of identifiable limits, we should remind ourselves that fisheries resources are finite, and that the lakes are not productive compared with those at lower latitudes. The growth rate is slower, and reproduction for some mature members of any given fish population does not occur every year. Northwest Territories fisheries are best suited to small community development activities and inter-settlement trade. The value of domestic fisheries should also be recognized first and foremost. Economic or commercial development of the fisheries should not be conducted at the present or future expense of domestic use.

CARC: Is there a bias in favour of the east and west coasts in the development of fisheries policy? Has this tended to restrict the development of the northern fishery?

Asselin: DFO has historically emphasized its activity on the east and west coasts, and there are good reasons for this: large fisheries, many fishermen, foreign competition. DFO is currently well advanced in developing an arctic fisheries policy. On a per capita basis, the Northwest Territories is probably doing quite well when you consider the Renewable Resources Subsidiary Agreement for $5 million over the next five years, access to the Native Economic Development Fund, and other programmes.

 However, the factors I have mentioned have not restricted the development of eastern arctic fisheries-rather, as a North Atlantic nation, the emphasis has been on accessing stocks closer to markets. The challenge has been to locate private capital for investment in a fishery about which little is known in terms of location, stocks, and size. The experimental scallop licence the minister issued this year for Cumberland Sound will have to be extended another year because the boats, due to ice conditions, did not begin fishing until late August. The season will end with a catch of well under 3000 kg.

 CARC: What are your objectives as assistant deputy minister? What challenges do you see lying ahead?

 Asselin: When I was travelling through the western Arctic recently I was very impressed with the way in which fisheries resources in the Inuvialuit area are being managed in a co-operative manner. One of my objectives would be to attain this type of co-operation throughout the North, to establish a system of consultation and shared management with local authorities. In that regard, I would like to develop a better working relationship with the Government of the Northwest Territories at the senior level. I would also like to see us develop better means of scientific stock assessment in the North and to increase our presence there.

 CARC: How important is the Arctic Marine Conservation Strategy to the potential for fisheries management in the North?

 Asselin: The Arctic Marine Conservation Strategy is important to fisheries management because it emphasizes a cooperative approach, with significant regional and local involvement in decision making. It also emphasizes sustainable development of renewable resources and integrated planning for all resource development. The initiative, which was endorsed by the Task Force on Northern Conservation, is supportive of northern land-use planning and compatible with land claims objectives, the World Conservation Strategy, the recommendations of the Inuit Circumpolar Conference, and the Brundtland Commission on sustainable development and the world environment.

 CARC: How does the department see land claims as contributing to the development potential and management of a northern fishery?

 Asselin: Land claims and the early implementation of wildlife management boards are a corner-stone for fisheries and marine mammal management. They provide a forum for participation in management by those dependent on the resources in question.

 I think the Inuvialuit area gives an indication of what can be done-it is a very positive development and a demonstration of the great concern native peoples have for the resource. I hope that we can achieve similar success in other land claim situations.

 CARC: Does the animal rights movement pose a threat to the fishery or to the hunting of marine mammals by native northerners? If so, what is the department's strategy?

 Asselin: In general, the animal rights movement has had a devastating, albeit indirect, impact on northern communities. The European ban on seal pup skins from the east coast had the same effect on the sale of sealskins from Inuit communities. In the North, those sales provided a significant and necessary source of cash income. Whereas Inuit hunters earned nearly $1 million in 1980-81 from the sale of raw pelts, last year's sales were $35 000.

 Having noted the above, some elements of the movement have since qualified their blanket opposition and are, in fact, supportive of traditional native pursuits on sealing.

 The DFO strategy is to provide factual information to the public, speak plainly, and support native harvesting of seals. DFO has contributed financially to the efforts of Indigenous Survival International to educate the European population on the significance of renewable resources to native traditions and ultimate survival.

 CARC: What is the department's view of hunter income support programmes?

 Asselin: DFO has supported income support programmes in the past on a selective basis to stabilize markets, or to help in "rough" market periods. The department was a signatory to the recent economic development agreements that DIAND negotiated with the GNWT, and we will be involved in administering the funds under the renewable resources portion of that agreement.

CARC: What is the department's role in monitoring environmental changes likely to affect the future of the northern fishery? Recent studies seem to indicate that pollutants originating in Canada and elsewhere may be more prevalent in northern waters than previously believed.

 Asselin: DFO has had-and will have-a substantial role in the environmental monitoring throughout the North. The department has participated through the Northern Oil and Gas Action Plan studies, the various Environmental Assessment Review Process hearings, the N.W.T. Water Board, and by monitoring the impacts of the Norman Wells pipeline and other projects.

 Regarding pollutants, DFO is on the leading edge of research and monitoring. Interestingly, many pollutants do not originate in Canada; for example, toxaphene, identified in the Mackenzie River, probably originated from cotton fields in south-east Asia or the southern U.S.A.

 CARC: What is the subsistence value of the northern fishery, particularly as regards the cost of imported food?

 Asselin: It's difficult to quantify the value of the northern subsistence fishery, but the GNWT estimates that it's in the order of $12 million. It is important to note that there is an intrinsic traditional "lifestyle" component to these fisheries and, as well, an important dietary feature. In addition, the cost of imported foods is staggering-the cost of living in the Northwest Territories is 45 per cent higher than in the rest of Canada, and in isolated communities like Pelly Bay it can be nearly four times higher.

CARC: How do you view the future of the northern fishery?

Asselin: For the future, I see development of small-scale fisheries at a pace commensurate with the interests, benefits, and needs of communities. There will be variations in emphasis from community to community and, for reasons mentioned before, some government assistance-direct and indirect-will likely remain a factor. On a value-per-pound basis, sport fishing provides a higher return than any other method, except perhaps for high-value marine species like shrimp and scallops that show some promise in the eastern Arctic. Anglers in the Northwest Territories spent a total of $25.3 million on goods and services in 1985, of which $18.7 million (66 per cent) was directly attributable to sport fishing.

 Finally, it should be emphasized that, subject to the requirement for conservation, the first priority for fisheries use is native subsistence, followed by sport and commercial exploitation.